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PostPosted: 08 Jul 2019, 13:18 
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Joined: 19 Oct 2018, 15:30
Posts: 132
Location: Montréal, Québec
So after quite a bit of time reading and searching the internet, I decided to seek advices and opinions on the forum. As I will be completing my first single ended amp (tubelab sse), i’m starting to search for speakers that would match this kind of amplifier. I don’t know yet if i’ll build something myself or if i’ll just buy a speaker pair. Still open to both ways and hopefully your answers will help clarify that.

I’ll provide some requirements that I would love my next speakers to meet :

- full 20hz to 20khz
- high sensitivity, (mid 90’s and up)
- I don’t care about size as long as they can fit under an 8' ceiling
- flat impedance curve (or should I say the flatter possible impedance curve. A flat curve is called a line IMO :D )
- kind of affordable would be nice
- I really like full range drivers, but they don’t seem to be able to check all the previous boxes
- I also like large drivers, for their sound and their style

New, used or diy ?

Any related comments are mote than welcomed ! Thanks !


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PostPosted: 08 Jul 2019, 15:36 
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Joined: 23 Feb 2017, 02:02
Posts: 553
Full range drivers in 8 inch range gives you arround 90-96dB sensitivity.
If you make them open baffle then you should have fairly flat response up to 20khz.
Rember allot of sites say that most people stop hearing at arround 15kHZ so as long as it goes to this point or higher should be good

Anymore than 96dB then your looking at 10-18 inch drivers and you need to have a very well matched crossover and tweeter to get very good sound. Not easy
A hint is that from exprience anything more than 1st order cross over is bad for sound quality


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PostPosted: 08 Jul 2019, 20:58 
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Joined: 19 Oct 2018, 15:30
Posts: 132
Location: Montréal, Québec
15 to 20k seems fairly easy to get with something like a fostex fe206, but 20hz is another story. I worry a lot more about not getting enough low end for my taste than lacking high end. Getting flat impédance curve doing that adds another layer of complexity


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 03:10 
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Joined: 23 Feb 2017, 02:02
Posts: 553
I worry all only about vocals and the sexy voice.
Vocals is the thing that diffrentiates between expensive and cheap amplifiers.

You can always have a base arround 100 to 300 hz then cross over to the full range which is open baffle. No exprience on this one but would deffintley work if tuned right.

I don't work for ERSE Audio but.
ERSE pulsex and foilq aren't exnpensive imo and I highly recomend it cause the sound quality gains so impressive. Littratley no diffrent from listening to a speaker wihout any distoriton from the cross over components.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 07:12 
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Joined: 19 Oct 2018, 15:30
Posts: 132
Location: Montréal, Québec
ILoveHiFi wrote:
I worry all only about vocals and the sexy voice.
Vocals is the thing that diffrentiates between expensive and cheap amplifiers.

You can always have a base arround 100 to 300 hz then cross over to the full range which is open baffle. No exprience on this one but would deffintley work if tuned right.


Even though I listen to instrumental music at least 50% of the time, I agree that vocals are important. I don’t want to focus only on one part of the bandwidth. To me low end is as important as the highs. I listen to many different kinds of music everyday, so I don’t want to compromise on any part of the bandwidth. But as you said, we don’t hear that much over 15k.

(Btw, there is interesting audio tests on the internet that lets you know how high/low you can hear, and there’s no doubt I can hear up to 20khz. I can hear "ultrasonic" mouse repelents that you plug in a wall outlet, and I can’t tell when my smartphone is charged up from the sound of the charger... kind of anything from time to time LOL !)

You bring an idea I had before. Would it be possible to use a subwoofer and a full range driver in the same enclosure but in separated compartments, using only a crossover to separate between the two and powered by the same amp ? I’ve seen this done with plate amps that drive the subs and the full range driven from a regular amp, but i’d like both speakers to be powered by my amp.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 17:28 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2018, 21:33
Posts: 204
Location: australia
when young I was a fan of church organ music put out on the telarc digital series of cds and some old records from the second hand shop. Dad and I put together this very kit at the link. Specifications say 35 hz but more likely 40 and very clear bass. only recently sold the speakers. heavy to shift though. I find the new two way drivers in ported box designs almost as good now but of course the bass rolls of a little higher and misses some notes. not sure how efficient they would be with a valve amp. In the day I had a quad 405 with no shortage of watts. You may be able to substitute newer more efficient drivers. Google transmission lines and you’ll see there’s lots of designs to suit tastes and available space. http://p10hifi.net/planet10/TLS/downloa ... TL-Mk2.pdf.

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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 19:59 
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Joined: 23 Feb 2017, 02:02
Posts: 553
By crossing over usign a inductor and capacitor, only one amplifier is required to drive the crossed over speakers.

Using the same enclosursure will casue prolbems. As mentioned before


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2019, 21:51 
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Joined: 04 Jun 2008, 20:59
Posts: 4031
Location: Arizona, USA
Hi, Single driver systems can work, but the cost of such drivers is rather high. A pretty reasonable two way system can be designed and meet your requirements well. My experience has been that there are a number of 8 inch woofers that can work well in the 30 HZ range and still be decently efficient. The midrange-tweeter is usually no problem for efficiency. Many need to be padded down to match the woofer. I agree on the first order crossover use when possible. It is the only one that can have phase matching between the woofer and mid-tweeter at the crossover point. It does mean that both drivers need to overlap well in response (often two octaves) and not have any anomalies in the overlap area. What I suggest is to use a modeling program for the woofer. The relationships of box size, efficiency and low frequency response are a cubic function and always require trade offs. I like to use the LDC-7 Design Suite to compute the values. You enter woofer parameters and play with the box size and see the results. There are other programs that will do the same. It seems for most common woofers a vented box of about 1.5 to 2.0 cubic foot size will be needed to get the sensitivity you want and still reach down into the 30 HZ or sometimes below that range. There is not much musical content down there. I use a set of Martin Logan ESls that have 8 inch vented woofers and they will reach a -3db point at about 35HZ. For nearly all music that is just fine. I am unfortunately a lover of a solid bottom end and use huge 7 cubic vented subs to augment the MLs. I also use a 24 db/octave electronic crossover set for 45 HZ. Efficiency overall is about 92 db/watt and I use a quad of 20 watt tube amps. With less power in your desired amp something will have to give. That is why I suggest using a program and doing "what ifs". Incidentally I did a set of open baffle speakers with 12 inch drivers and 3inch cone tweeters. Nice sound, fairly efficient (about 93), but seriously lacking in bass. 6 square foot boards and the response was down at -3 or so by 70 HZ. A 4X8 sheet of plywood would probably get you to about what you want, but will not be a source of delight for the other family members. There are several good programs to design OB speakers on the web too. Just some ramblings. Others may have differing thoughts.

Good listening
Bruce

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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2019, 22:18 
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008, 18:23
Posts: 5139
Location: Australia
The Mark Audio 12P 8” are very efficient and there is cabinet designs on the site. Simple to build and cheap to buy. I built a pair. Down to near 40hZ and right out to 20K.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6328&p=55402&hilit=VoXUno#p55402

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Projects:"retro2308" - chip based headphone amp | ”Calibre 834” - tube phono MM preamp | ”najah” - Raw 180W Tripath Class D power amp | "Icon" - Shuguang CV-181Z preamp


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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2019, 07:59 
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Joined: 19 Oct 2018, 15:30
Posts: 132
Location: Montréal, Québec
Woodo wrote:
when young I was a fan of church organ music put out on the telarc digital series of cds and some old records from the second hand shop. Dad and I put together this very kit at the link. Specifications say 35 hz but more likely 40 and very clear bass. only recently sold the speakers. heavy to shift though. I find the new two way drivers in ported box designs almost as good now but of course the bass rolls of a little higher and misses some notes. not sure how efficient they would be with a valve amp. In the day I had a quad 405 with no shortage of watts. You may be able to substitute newer more efficient drivers. Google transmission lines and you’ll see there’s lots of designs to suit tastes and available space. http://p10hifi.net/planet10/TLS/downloa ... TL-Mk2.pdf.


While not something I would listen to all day, I really like organ too. They can go down below 20hz in the lowest notes, wich is pretty much impossible to track for most tonearms, and to reproduce for most speakers lol.

Some organs have been built with their lowest C two octaves lower than the lowest C of a piano. The lowest C of a piano being at 32.7Hz, it means that some organs can produce tones as low as 8.175Hz !!


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